2008 Hall of Fame Induction

January 9, 2008 at 7:45 pm 34 comments

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Just in case you missed it, Rich “Goose” Gossage was inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. Gossage saved 310 games in his career, good for 17th on the all-time list, but that is not why he is. Gossage is the last closer of his kind. A closer that would go more than an inning to get a save. He was more than that though. He was a closer that would go two innings at times. Congrats to the Goose!

Gossage, a nine time All-Star, has 168 less saves than Lee Smith (who is 2nd all-time) but Smith only got 43.3 % of the votes. The reason is that Gossage pitched in a staggering 1809.3 innings to Smith’s 1289.3. Gossage also finished with 124 wins to Smith’s 71 and Gossage had a winning record. The reason Gossage got in is because of his dominance, not his eye popping numbers. If guys like Bruce Sutter are in the Hall then Gossage has to be in.

Here is the final voting:

[table=14]

The sad thing about the voting is the low percentage for Tim Raines. Raines, for me, is a close call. If I had a vote I find it hard to vote for him when I think of him, he’s not HOF “sexy”. But when I look at his numbers there is little reason not to vote for him. Raines is 5th all-time with 808 stolen bases. But what is impressive is that he stole those at an 85% success rate. Raines scored 1571 runs, drove in 980, and played in 2502 games. The stat that makes me want to vote for him is how many times he was on base. We all like to look at hits, and his 2605 are short of the 3000 we all like to see, but we need to start looking at times on base more. Raines reached base an impressive 3977 times, good for 40th all-time. More times than HOFers Tony Gwynn, Mike Schmidt, Lou Brock, and Brooks Robinson to name a few. Raines’ case is very compelling because the “mainstream stats” of his aren’t great (HR, RBI, Hits) but his overall numbers are very impressive. He should be getting more votes than 24.3% he recieved. He is definitely a more deserving candidate than Jim Rice too, but I won’t go there.

-Jonathan C. Mitchell

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Swisher dealt to White Sox for 3 minor leaguers The 2009-2011 HOF candidates

34 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Danno  |  January 9, 2008 at 10:21 pm

    Glad you didn’t go there with Andre Dawson either 🙂

    Reply
  • 2. 19  |  January 10, 2008 at 7:03 am

    OK, I’m a Yankees fan, so I’m biased, which is why I’d like some non-Yankee fan opinions: why does Don Mattingly receive so little support for the HOF? His career was shortened due to injuries, but it seems like he is penalized for trying to play through the injuries. When he was on, he was one of the best hitters in the game. His defense was always tops. Watching him play, I always thought “there’s a definite Hall of Famer”. It just seems as if he was penalized for playing through the injuries, while a guy like Kirby Puckett was rewarded for having to retire. In no way am I saying Puckett isn’t a HOFer, I just think BOTH should be there.

    And you’re dead on about Gossage. He was so dominant and intimidating in his day, things the numbers just don’t show.

    And the writers need to put Blyleven in already. If he hadn’t played for so many bad teams he would have had more than 300 victories.

    Reply
  • 3. Charlie Nehl  |  January 10, 2008 at 7:39 am

    I really disappointed that Andre Dawson wasn’t voted in. What’s next years voting ballot look like? Maybe Rice and Dawson can get the nod then?

    Reply
  • 4. Charlie Nehl  |  January 10, 2008 at 7:41 am

    Oh, it was also interesting to see that Big Mac’s numbers went up quite a bit. I’m thinking people are mostly over his bad congressional testimony a few years back, and possibly because his name didn’t show up in the Mitchell report? Hard to say.

    Reply
  • 5. Jonathan C. Mitchell  |  January 10, 2008 at 10:17 am

    Danno – I am in the same boat with Dawson as I am with Raines. Dawson was a more dominate player but was on base way less than Raines. His .323 career OBP is so low that it makes it hard for me to give Dawson the nod. All his ither numbers and awards though make it easy. I’m torn on Dawson, Rice on the other hand I would not vote for.

    Reply
  • 6. Jonathan C. Mitchell  |  January 10, 2008 at 10:25 am

    19 – You bring up a lot of good points. I agree that if Puckett is in then Mattingly should be in. But, I don’t think Puckett should be in. There are quite a few guys I think should not be in. I think the writers keep watering down the HOF with some of their inductions (especially the stupid Veteran’s Committee. … oops, did I say stupid?). Mattingly was dominate but his career was cut short much like Puckett’s and he doesn’t have the HOF numbers he needs to get in.

    Blylevan is also a toss up to me. I say he belongs because of his strikeout total (5th all-time) and win total but his losses are a lot. But he played with mediocre teams and mediocre defenses. If he played with Jack Morris’ defenses of Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker I bet he would have 300 wins and about 15 less losses.

    Reply
  • 7. Jonathan C. Mitchell  |  January 10, 2008 at 10:41 am

    Charlie – Dawson is another I am torn on. His numbers look like HOFers but the lack of times on base and overall OBP (.323) make it really hard for me to throw him in. But his homers, RBI, runs, Awards… make it easy. I think He gets in eventually because the voters will get fed up with the “steroid era” players on the ballot.

    I will make a post about the candidates coming in the next couple years probably by the end of today.

    Reply
  • 8. Charlie Nehl  |  January 10, 2008 at 12:13 pm

    Yeah, I’m sorta bias towards Dawson, not only because I’m a Cubs fan, but because he WAS my childhood hero. I understand your point. I think if he had not played that many seasons on the turf in Montreal, he’d be in the Hall.

    Reply
  • 9. Jonathan C. Mitchell  |  January 10, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    I think Dawson will eventually make it. The classes coming up will have “steroid era” players in it and the older voters will definitely try to get guys like Dawson in. I think he makes it before it’s all said and done. One thing I love about Dawson is that he played for his contract. The season he won the MVP is the season he signed a blank contract and told them to pay him what he was worth.

    Reply
  • 10. erik  |  January 10, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    In my humble opinion all of those names listed are HOF players. They were dominate players when they played. They are far more deserving of being enshrined in cooperstown than phil rizzuto ever was. I think all of those players will eventually go in. As for mattingly, to me he is the same player Keith hernandez is and if one goes so shall the other.

    Reply
  • 11. Jonathan C. Mitchell  |  January 10, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    I totally agree about Rizzuto. He doesn’t belong in. But if we use the argument that “if he’s in then this player should be in” then we are settling for a lesser player to be indecuted. There are many players in that I don’t agree with. A lof of which were inducted by the stupid Veteran’s Cimmittee (Rizzuto included) at a time when they inducted everybody who played on a winning team. The only time the argument should even be considered is if the player in the Hall deserves to be in there.

    Reply
  • 12. Erik  |  January 10, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    To me since I have visited the Hall of Fame on many occaisions while living in NYS, is a museum. Many of the players in it have paved the way for today’s players. Many of them put up statistics claiming that they were the best during the era in which they played. And to me there will always be arguments as to whether or not a particular player belongs in the HOF. Whether it is through the BBWofA, the Veterans committee, or what have you. In my opinion, a lot more players deserve to be enshrined than are actually there. I think players who are facing the Steroid age should be able to go in. Steriods doesn’t make a hitter a better hitter. Sure it helps with muscle mass and yes helps one recover from injury faster but it doesn’t make someone’s curveball break better or their changeup move better. If it were football it would be different but to me people like McGwire and dare I say it Bonds, belongs in the HOF regardless…after all it was not a banned substance while they were taking it. In anycase, take Rizzuto out and put players like Dawson, Rice, Blyleven in…

    Reply
  • 13. Jonathan C. Mitchell  |  January 10, 2008 at 11:04 pm

    I agree 100% about the “steroid era” players. I would vote them in. But I still think Jim Rice doesn’t belong and I’m still on the fence about Dawson. Rice falls into the category of some Rockies players due to his home/road splits. He was very average away from home.

    Reply
  • 14. erik  |  January 11, 2008 at 8:54 am

    I think Rice has the credentials… so I guess we will continue to disagree on Rice. I think Rice took advantage of the Green Monster, just as Carl Yaztremski, Ted Williams did before him did. Yes, Rice was a surly individual but the man was a quality ball player for years. (I am happy that I am not defending a Yankee in this situation, but he does belong in the HOF as much as some other greats do… Also he didn’t Cheat!) Might as well let them all in!

    Reply
  • 15. Jonathan C. Mitchell  |  January 11, 2008 at 9:07 am

    Haha! I guess we will disagree on Rice. I just can’t give him the nod. I would put Dale Murphy in before Jim Rice. Home/Road split of .320.374.546/.277.330.459 like that is quite ridiculous. At least Yaz and Ted Williams did it left handed. Fenway isn’t the best park for lefties when it comes to power numbers. Ted Williams had a higher SLUG and more homers away but a higher AVG and OBP at home. Yaz was mediocre away but had the overall numbers to make it in the hall. If Rice is a HOFer then Dante Bichette is a HOFer in my opinion.

    Reply
  • 16. erik  |  January 11, 2008 at 9:08 am

    Rice 8 time All-star, 1 MVP Award, 2 Silver Slugger Award,

    Home or Away
    I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF ROE GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip tOPS+ Split
    +-+————+—-+—-+—–+—–+—-+—-+—+—+—+—-+—-+—+—-+—+—+—+—+—+—-+—+—–+—–+—–+—–+—–+—–+————+
    Home 1048 1036 4507 4075 681 1304 207 44 208 802 348 50 691 34 2 48 49 156 32 17 .320 .374 .546 .920 .340 115 Home
    Away 1041 1023 4551 4150 568 1148 166 35 174 649 322 27 732 30 3 46 64 159 26 17 .277 .330 .459 .789 .296 85 Away
    Aside from average he still produced away from Fenway.

    Reply
  • 17. erik  |  January 11, 2008 at 9:10 am

    dale Murphy belongs IN the HOF no doubt in my mind… He should have been in for years now.

    Dante Bichette sickens me.. couldn’t you have said Larry Walker instead?

    Reply
  • 18. Jonathan C. Mitchell  |  January 11, 2008 at 9:11 am

    I wouldn’t call a .330 OBP or a .459 SLUG produce. That is average at best; below average for a COF that doesn’t have the best glove. I love this banter by the way! Seriously! I wish more people spoke their mind the way you do.

    Reply
  • 19. erik  |  January 11, 2008 at 9:15 am

    You’re welcome… but the Dante Bichette comment really took it too far!

    Reply
  • 20. Jonathan C. Mitchell  |  January 11, 2008 at 9:17 am

    I’ll give you Ellis Burks then.
    .304/.375/.542 at home
    .279/.352/.480 away

    Those are a little better than Rice too.

    Larry Walker’s numbers are better away than Rice’s and his home are better than Rice’s.

    Reply
  • 21. erik  |  January 11, 2008 at 9:19 am

    Well I like Larry Walker better than both Ellis Burkes and Dante Bichette. Andres Galaragga though is a big question too.

    Reply
  • 22. erik  |  January 11, 2008 at 9:20 am

    Just to set the record on Rice… You aren’t the only one that thinks he is on the fence cause otherwise if he wasn’t he would have already been enshrined.

    Reply
  • 23. Jonathan C. Mitchell  |  January 11, 2008 at 9:20 am

    Sorry about the Bichette comment. That was harsh! I like Walker better than both too. I think Burks is the closest comparable to Rice though.

    Reply
  • 24. erik  |  January 11, 2008 at 9:22 am

    actually Orlando Cepeda is probably the closest to compare Rice to, then again I’m kinda old.

    Reply
  • 25. Jonathan C. Mitchell  |  January 11, 2008 at 9:26 am

    I can see that comparison. Only thing is Cepeda is on my list of guys who don’t belong in the Hall. Cepeda also has almost three times as many stolen bases and a better OPS+. But they are still very similar and both are players I would leave out of the HOF.

    Reply
  • 26. erik  |  January 11, 2008 at 9:31 am

    he also reminds me of Kent Hrbek…

    Reply
  • 27. Jonathan C. Mitchell  |  January 11, 2008 at 9:40 am

    I liked Hrbek growing up. And Gary Gaietti.

    Reply
  • 28. erik  |  January 11, 2008 at 9:51 am

    gaetti was a good glove at 3rd.

    Reply
  • 29. erik  |  January 11, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    Ha ha love the poll you created just for me Jonathan…

    Reply
  • 30. Jonathan C. Mitchell  |  January 11, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    I’m glad you noticed that! You inspired it!

    Reply
  • 31. Aaron Boynton  |  January 13, 2008 at 7:40 am

    Red Sox fan going to chime in here on Jim Rice. As much as I’d like Rice to get in, his numbers are comparable to a modern Albert Belle. I don’t think Belle belongs in the Hall of Fame and I don’t think Rice will. If Bill Mazeroski is in the HOF just because of game 7 vs the Yankees, then Rice SHOULD get in. However, I think Lee Smith, Bert Blyleven, Andre Dawson, and TIm Raines should be in above Jim Rice.

    Reply
  • 32. Jonathan C. Mitchell  |  January 13, 2008 at 8:41 am

    Mazeroski is in because he is possibly the best defensive 2B of all=time.

    Reply
  • 33. Aaron Boynton  |  January 13, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    Honestly, Maz got in by the good ol boys network solely on popularity from the World Series. Joe Morgan was a better defensive 2B than Maz. Heck, he was a better all-around player than Maz.

    Reply
  • 34. Jonathan C. Mitchell  |  January 15, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    I agree Morgan was a better all-around player and that Maz may have been voted in by the good ol boys but he got in because of his fielding and his heroics.

    Erik – Look who’s winning the vote now!

    Reply

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